The Apple TV, CBS, ESPN, Fox commentator joined Mic'd up to discuss MLS, Club World Cup and South American soccer
When the 2025 FIFA Club World Cup kicks off in the U.S. in June, it will be a blending of footballing cultures. American soccer fans will be introduced to clubs from all around the world, a development commentator Callum Williams says will be a "tremendous opportunity for the sport in this country."
Williams, an Apple TV analyst for MLS matches, is also a world soccer commentator, who calls matches in Europe, Copa Libertadores and more. Watching the likes of Palmeiras' and Brazil national team gems Endrick and Estevao emerge in the Brasilerao, or seeing MLS recruit South American talents such as Thiago Almada, Ezequiel Barco, Emanuel Reynoso, Alan Velasco, among others, Williams has witnessed the domestic game grow through a U.S. lens.
The common denominator, from Williams' perspective, is growth.
"I only think it's going to grow," he told GOAL. "I think more and more [South American stars] are going to come over to Major League Soccer as well, because they're seeing it as a viable option now that so many times, before this became a reality, players that were thriving in South America would end up going to play somewhere in Europe, and then they may go to France or Germany or England or Spain or something
"But now what they're doing is they're using Major League Soccer as a stepping stone. And some of them are actually looking around and saying, 'Well, actually the stepping stone doesn't necessarily need to be a step elsewhere. This is a place that I could stay for a long time and have a good career.' And that's simply down to the trajectory of Major League Soccer and many different aspects."
The Club World Cup will merge the cultures of Conmebol and CONCACAF, as well the Asian Football Confederation, UEFA clubs and the Oceania Football Confederation. Williams says the tournament has flaws, but it could be the start of a special 12 months in the U.S. ahead of the 2026 FIFA world Cup, providing the domestic game an a springboard for fans from around the world.
"I think we're only right on the cusp of something here in the U.S. and Canada," the Englishman said. "I'm really excited to see what it looks like in five or 10 years time, for sure, particularly after the World Cup."
Williams talked all things MLS, world soccer, Club World Cup and more in the latest edition of Mic’d Up, a recurring feature in which GOAL US taps into the perspective of broadcasters, analysts and other pundits on the state of soccer in the U.S. and abroad.
Getty Images SportON THE CLUB WORLD CUP
GOAL: The 2025 FIFA Club World Cup is just months away, and after the Group Stage draw in December, anticipation is higher than ever. What sort of opportunity does this present American soccer fans, the domestic game and the teams competing, themselves?
WILLIAMS: Well, firstly, from a fan perspective, I think it's a tremendous opportunity for people to see not only teams from the UEFA nations, but also from the CONMEBOL nations, from the Asian Football Federation, from all four corners of the world. Essentially, when you've got games such as Boca Juniors versus Bayern Munich, and you've got teams like Auckland City, and you've got other teams like Chelsea, potentially playing Flamengo and a handful of others. What a tremendous opportunity that is for football in this country to host a tournament like that, you know.
The Club World Cup, I think, divides opinions, and it has done for a long time, but I genuinely think because of this new format and because of the teams that are taking part in it, I think this could potentially be a new pathway for the Club World Cup, and could be one of the best opportunities for it – let's be honest, in a brand new market for it – because they've gone just about everywhere people have with this tournament.
But doing it in an emerging football nation like the United States, I think is a marvelous opportunity for both FIFA, for all the clubs involved as well, because – let's be honest – a lot of teams want to come here and grow their brand and marketing as well. But also, like I said, I think, from a fan perspective, it's a tremendous opportunity to go and see some really high quality football and competitive football as well. These aren't just preseason friendlies. These are competitive games. And so when you've got some of these other teams that are appearing from all four corners of the world. It's their chance to play against the likes of Chelsea and to play against the big boys of world football and what have you. So I think it's going to be great. I really do, I think it's going to be a tremendous opportunity for the sport in this country.
GOAL: Both Lionel Messi's Inter Miami and Jordan Morris' Seattle Sounders are representing MLS in the competition. What is a fair expectation for them both based on their respective groupings?
I think with somebody like Seattle Sounders, they have an attitude, they have an expectation as well as they have done for a long, long time. But the group that they're in, I mean my word, if you talk about some of the mouth-watering prospects that we have at our disposal, my God, Seattle Sounders against the champions of Brazil and the champions of the Libertadores in Botafogo? Atletico Madrid have been sensational and right at the top of European football for the last 10 years or so, and Paris Saint-Germain are one of the better known names across World Football. So from an expectation point of view, my assumption is Seattle would hope to get out of the group. But when you mentioned those names there, I mean, it's very, very difficult to pick any certain winners out of that group, and any certainty of top two, you know, it could be any of the teams.
I think when you've got somebody like Lionel Messi, the expectation is that you're going to win everything right? Obviously, that didn't happen for Inter Miami this year, but honestly, Miami… I think they'll fancy their chances of finishing second. I don't know if, again, if that's realistic. The one thing we're all hoping for is just that Messi plays, and he is as effective as he can be, and he gives everybody the the moment that we all, we all want and we have craves.
But Palmeiras are, for me, one of the most effective football teams I've ever seen. I was very fortunate to cover them for about three years during the Copa Libertadores several years ago where they won two of the three tournaments I did. Abel Ferreirai, the manager there, has adopted this direct approach – it's not the prettiest style of football, but it's very, very effective and I think Palmeiras will have bucket loads of supporters in the stadium. It's going to be amazing.
I think FC Porto and the Portuguese teams are often overlooked in world football, which I often find a bit disrespectful and a bit confusing, really. Because actually, Porto and Benfica, in that regard are absolutely juggernauts. They are humongous football clubs. But the fact that Porto are in the same group as Palmeiras, and Inter Miami, they're almost sort of been pushed to one side by a handful of the footballing world, and I don't think that's fair at all, because that there are tremendous football club and they have an array of star players who I think are going to go into bigger and better things over the course of the next couple of years.
Then there’s Al Ahly, who are an exceptional team. Their fans are unbelievable. I have a commentator friend who who commentated on one of their Champions League games and he said the atmosphere was absolutely ridiculous and will be intimidating. They've got so many good players and Egyptian football fans as well. Traditionally, there's an edge to them, there's expectation, as there always should be, but with a team like Al Ahly, who have been as successful as they have…. it's one of those groups where all four teams would fancy themselves to go through. I think they'd be happy finishing second, but they'll want to finish top.
AdvertisementGettyON MESSI AND INTER MIAMI'S 2024 STRUGGLES
GOAL: How do the and Messi bounce back after what was ultimately an embarrassing end to the 2024 MLS season? Is it through international competition or the domestic league triumphs themselves?
WILLIAMS: As for the playoffs, embarrassing, probably the right word, but also as well, let's give credit where it's due to Atlanta United as well, because they were tremendous at that point. I did the opening game of the playoffs where Atlanta beat Montreal. And I'll be totally honest – I thought Montreal were going to beat Atlanta handedly. I didn't see much from Atlanta during the regular season. I did them a handful of times, and didn't think there was much about them at all, but credit sir to Rob Valentino and the job that he did. I thought he was incredibly unlucky not to get the job full time, and I'm assuming he's going to be on the radar of a handful of MLS clubs, at least he should be after the job he did. But look, I think, I think Major League Soccer is going to be a better place if Miami is successful, there's going to be more eyeballs on it, right?
It's as simple as that, but I think there are so many teams now that are relevant on the global stage that I think that that notion and that sentence could probably be challenged now more than ever before. So I think the CONCACAF Champions League is interesting for Miami. I really hope that they get the opportunity to play down in the Caribbean, because I will not believe that Lionel Messi has experienced CONCACAF properly until he's playing competitively on a cricket pitch in Jamaica or somewhere along those lines. Because he needs to have that experience, he needs to be humbled and have that experience.
GOAL: Will Neymar end up joining Messi, Luis Suarez, Sergio Busquets and Jordi Alba at South Beach?
WILLIAMS: I don't think so, I think he will end up in the Brasilerao, I think that's the way he wants to end his career.
AFPON SOUTH AMERICA AS AN EMERGING MARKET FOR MLS
GOAL: Over the past few years, MLS has tapped into the South American market more and more – finding emerging talents, role players and Designated Players from the like of Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay and more. How has this helped MLS establish itself in the global game and what does it mean for the future of the domestic game?
WILLIAMS: The one word that comes to mind when I think of Major League Soccer when they dip into the South American market is growth, because it's obvious that there's more money in this league now than there ever has been before. There is loads of money spread across European football, but there's enough money to be competitive on the world stage. I have friends who commentate on various leagues across Europe, and they've all said that it's obvious now that Major League Soccer is now a part of everyday conversation.
They see MLS scouts in Denmark, in Poland, in Croatia, they see MLS scouts in France and Germany and Belgium, because Major League Soccer is just a part of that conversation now. And the same can be said, as you quite rightly said, with regards to South America. One of the more successful deals was bringing Thiago Almada into Atlanta United. And I don't think that ended up in the manner in which many of us thought. I still think he's going to go to Europe. I think because of the John Textor connection between Botafogo, Club Leon and Crystal Palace, he he may very well end up in Europe, maybe in an unconventional way, but he's still going to end up over there at some stage, I think because he's too talented not to be – but losing the player to the Brasilerao is nothing to be ashamed of at all.
I have said many, many times, I think the Brasilerao, by far and away, is the best league in this part of the world. Probably a top six, seven league in the world. And so when Major League Soccer is competing for players with the Brazil and certainly signing players from the Argentine Primera, which has become a little easier because of the economic situation in Argentina at the moment, I only think it's a signal of major, major growth.
Getty ImagesON EUROPE'S RENEWED INTEREST IN SOUTH AMERICAN MARKET
GOAL: For nearly a decade, Europe's pursuit of South America's rising stars seemed to vanish. During the mid-2000s, the craze was finding the next talent out of South America, and into the early 2010s, that trend continued until there was suddenly a change in the market. Europe's top leagues started to prioritize players from their native country. Now, 11 years on from when Barcelona signed Neymar, Europe have returned to that market, with the likes of Palmeiras' Endrick at Real Madrid and Estevao at Chelsea , Claudio Echeverri moving from River Plate to Man City, Aaron Anselmino from Boca Juniors to Chelsea – among countless others. Why now? What's changed, and why did it?
WILLIAMS: I think a lot of it has to do with a combination of naivety and ignorance. From a European perspective, I love European football, it's incredible. I love English football. It's amazing. But there is a certain naivety towards it at times when it's very much as though people are selling down a singular corridor and they only want to, if you're in England, you only want to watch English football. You only want to operate in English football. And that, for me, is the wrong way to operate. And so now, thankfully, it looks like that's changed.
Echeverri, he's 19, and he's been compared to Messi already. You know, I know that's an unbelievable statement to make. People from across world football are saying this could very well be the next one. River Plate has an unbelievable record of developing world-class players. I was fortunate enough to see Enzo Fernandez develop through that River system. I caught him just before he actually broke into the River when he was on loan at Defensa y Justicia when they won the Copa Sudamericana, and that's when he really got his breakout. And he was 18 years old and he bossing the midfield; he was tremendous. But that just shows that River have such a way of developing young players and selling them on and and let's be honest, using the cast the right way and bringing in star players from a South American perspective. So it's great. It's really, really good to see.
Anselmino is going to be somebody who I hope gets an opportunity at Chelsea and the same what we said about Echeverri, right? I think Echeverri is perhaps a little more first-team ready than Anselmino, but it wouldn't surprise me if Anselmino ends up going on loan somewhere before he does, I think he would get an opportunity in the Manchester City first-team before Anselmino would at Chelsea. I don't know. I hope I'm wrong there, but I can just see him, particularly with the way Chelsea have handled young players in the past. I can see him going out on loan somewhere, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing either, though.
Endrick, I mean, my word, it's every time you watch him play, I think he looks like he's a 27-year -ld that's fully established, not only because of his movement off the ball, because of his pace, because of his strength, but because of his physical build as well. He looks like somebody that's been in the gym for the last 20 years.
Estevao, he’s different from Endrick. I think Endrick, he's much more of a polished finisher, whereas I actually think Estevao is a better footballer. He's better playing just off of the center forward. He's better just a little deeper, almost in a 10 and a half role. And I think you'd be more than comfortable in the wide areas as well, particularly on the right, cutting in on the left. But Endrick I think could be one of the next big superstars we were going to see in world football. And I know that's a fairly obvious statement to make now, given what he's what he's gone on to do, and the move that he's got. But sometimes these moves don't work out.